[6/19] Berryz Kobo 32nd single: Golden Chinatown / Sayonara Usotsuki no Watashi

[Sohee]

Momochi mentions Berryz quite a lot. And no, it doesn't necessarily translate into sales. But it translate into exposure and people knowing about the group even if just one or five more people. Besides, Momochi is more successful than Sayu was. Because she's the annoying kind and those are the ones that gets pushed the most. Sayu was still on a lot of shows and she made people aware of her existence AND later on also that MM were still doing stuff -- remember that it was at the end of platinum era that more girls got into MM and started going to concerts more often. That probably was a lot due to Sayumi on TV being there reminding the public of their existence and that they're still around.

[DadaPaPa]

It was around the end of platinum era that girls were getting into idol groups and going to concerts in general... She just got a lot more female fans compared to the rest of the group being constantly on TV.

But I don't see Berryz having gained many female fans since Momochi went TV though?
And does she really mention Berryz a lot? I rather have the impression Sayumi gets pulled it way more often into the conversations? I don't really see much exposure for Berryz as a group happening...

Also wasn't Sayumi THE annoying kind? As you said Momoko is way more popular... Thanks to her rather boke character. I remember a lot more negative reactions to Sayumi's character back then than Momoko now.

[Sohee]

I have no idea if Berryz have gained more female fans or not. What I'm saying is that Momochi on TV is exposure for Berryz. Even if not too much or whatever, it still is. People become more aware of the group thanks to her being on TV like, everyday.

I don't watch EVERYTHING that Momochi is on, but the things I watch - which definitely is at least a few shows/week - Berryz is often mentioned. Either by herself or sometimes thanks to the hosts or other comedians on the show. In the beginning she didn't, as she had to promote herself, but now Momochi is so established so it's easier to focus on things like Berryz as she doesn't have to PR herself as much.

Sayumi was the cocky character, loving herself and looking down on others. Momochi loves herself and everyone around her and can't see anything wrong with herself or her doings but she does it to please everyone. And because of that Momochi is definitely way more annoying than Sayumi was. And those, obstinate characters are the ones that gets call backs on TV etc. Especially since Sayumi has somewhat let go of her cockiness, thank god. She's still smart and all, but she's no way near as annoying or even arrogant (though that's not a word I'd use for Momochi at all) as Momochi is.

The comments about Sayumi pretty much was "she's too full of herself," while the average comment about Momochi seems to be "she's so fskn annoying." And that's a huge difference. Sayumi never appeared on TV as much and as often as Momochi, because her character isn't as pushed.

[DadaPaPa]

Sayumi didn't really let go of her character. Neither then nor now. Rather Sayumi's character lost its effect once other entertainers she was on shows with started backfiring her comments taking much of her "poison-tongue" character. And I don't get the "as pushed" argument since Momochi wasn't around at Sayumi's prime.

The big difference I noticed is that in contrary to Sayumi's character Momoko's leaves a lot more opportunities for comedy situations since her character basically acts as a running-boke like role.

Your "way more annoying" makes it look like TV-show producers are sadistic and simply want to piss people off... rather than drawing in viewers with entertainment.
If people didn't wanna see Momochi she wouldn't be on shows.
__

EDIT:
But I guess this is getting off-topic? Sorry for that.

[resop2]

Sayumi was an arrogant heel, but she was also capable of backing things up and was eventually turned baby face.

Momochi is an arrogant heel that cannot back it up. She is popular because the audience enjoys seeing her get beat up.

Sayumi had one thing going for her that Momochi (as far as I know) does not have: a credible rival. I don't think that Sayumi would have had as long a run as she did on London Hearts if it wasn't for her feud with MISONO. Momochi has tried to have Chinami be her rival but Chinami is no MISONO.

[Sohee]

...Sayumi has changed her character from how she was in 2009-2010 to how she has been the past year/s. She's no way near as self-centered these days as she used to be. She never was self-centered in private, but on TV whenever she appears these days, while she leaves smart comments she hardly acts the same way she did back then. And that makes sense.

Momochi is annoying, that's her character. Because she's annoying, other comedians can make fun of her and "put her down" which is what people watch and that's what people want to see. She's hardly popular for being a liked character, people get annoyed with her and but because of the people around her she's still popular. THAT is why she gets on TV so much. Because her character brings laughs -- because she's over the top annoying.

As for "as pushed"... they don't have to be around on the same time. It's just to compare Sayumi's prime to Momochi now. Momochi has more - she has the pose, she has the hair, she has the contradictions (doing cat poses despite disliking cats etc) and that helps a lot. But because Momochi's character is way more annoying she's more successful. Sayumi is still a big name and all, I'm not saying she isn't, but her character etc never got as big as Momochi is today.

For the record, I think they're slowly starting to humanized Momochi though. What with showing her "flaws" and un-idol like sides. Which is a good thing, that's what they did with Sayumi too and that's what most (if not all) comedians and talents go through. They stick with one gag/character for ages until they're supposedly popular enough not to rely on only that one but can still appear on TV and be funny. Personally, when talents stop being the way they started out is when they get the most interesting for me.

[sb]

If this was Momusu or ℃-ute about to outsell their own best single people would be lining up to kiss their asses and go on and on about them and their greatness. Berryz does it and it's excuse heaven.

To quote Phil Jackson, "Give them some fucking credit."

At the end of the day, regardless if this song is "bad" or they look "disinterested" or the PV is "cheap" this song sold. So instead of hating, there should be a bunch of posts that look like this:

YEEAAAHHHH!!!


Now ladies break your record!

[DadaPaPa]

^x3 I don't get what you are implying with that... especially if you regard who's more successful nonetheless.

^x2 that isn't true as far as I witnessed it. Momochi is also popular for her character by itself. She also gets enough credit for being actually funny. (Of course more now than at the start though.) Her character does in no way always involve getting "beat up".
Unlike Sayumi I haven't seen Momochi pop up on any tabloid's "top xx hated celebrities"for any reason. Rather the contrary is the case.

I do agree with the humanizing of Momochi though.

If this was Momusu or ℃-ute about to outsell their own best single people would be lining up to kiss their asses and go on and on about them and their greatness. Berryz does it and it's excuse heaven.

I'm new here but that sounds like it's something frequently recurring on this forum?

[koregaboku]

Commenting on your post:
1) I think Momochi is regularly on more often than Sayu was but for Sayu to be on as often as she was as an H!P/Morning Musume idol right when AKB was really starting to get uber popular is a feat in it of itself. I would call the Sayu/Momochi variety circuit as an apples to oranges kind of deal.

I also think UF*/Sayu made a somewhat conscious decision to pull Sayu from variety shows. While she does great on them (in part because she's not a dumb idol but a rather very clever one, especially with her "poison tongue") since she became leader Sayu has basically said it's no longer about promoting herself (which was what she used variety for) but about promoting Morning Musume as a whole. In that way I think Sayu has invested a lot into MM./H!P by taking on that responsibility whereas she could have taken a more selfish route by continuing her own promotion.

2) I think Sohee didn' use the right words, because I agree about Momochi getting "beat up". Basically she's used as a punching bag, or as the punchlines to jokes. Similar to how when Sayu called herself the cutest everyone would always say that she wasn't that cute, or that she was average at best. Momochi easily sets herself up to be contradicted. Maybe not bullied exactly, but definitely being laughed at and not laughed with which is a huge difference.

3) I don't know how frequently recurring it is but the general consensus seems to be that we think Berryz could do/have better/they lost some of their spunk. Both MM. and C-ute lately have really been fired up and super energetic in their songs/promotional work which gives the impression that they care more. Not necessarily true but that's how we see it.

[resop2]

^
My own opinion for what it is worth is that Berryz Kobo's current mediocre (but good for them) sales are happening in spite of the damage that Momochi's character is doing to them. I think the sales are being driven by the increasing popularity of MM, C-ute, and S/Mileage.

Being on a zillion shows as a talent does not necessarily translate to sales. If you are promoting a very negative unlikeable image then your sales will not benefit.

Yaguchi Mari was a great talent who's presence was a positive since she was the short vivacious girl who could bounce back from being manhandled by other talents. Momoko takes some bumps but NOTHING compared to what Mari would take.

Sayumi didn't have to take bumps because her gimmick was her sharp tongue and arrogant attitude. I don't know if Sayumi's heel period helped MM that much but I don't think it hurt MM that much either.